Krishnamurti on Craving and The Word

December 30, 2009

- Krishnamurti on Craving and The Word -

There is no entity separate from craving; there is only craving, there is no one who craves. Craving takes on different masks at different times, depending on its interests. The memory of these varying interests meets the new, which brings about conflict, and so the chooser is born, establishing himself as an entity separate and distinct from craving. But the entity is not different from its qualities. The entity who tries to fill or run away from emptiness, incompleteness, loneliness, is not different from that which he is avoiding; he is it. He cannot run away from himself; all that he can do is to understand himself. He is his loneliness, his emptiness; and as long as he regards it as something separate from himself; he will be in illusion and endless conflict. When he directly experiences that he is his own loneliness, then only can there be freedom from fear. Fear exists only in relationship to an idea, and idea is the response of memory as thought. Thought is the result of experience; and though it can ponder over emptiness, have sensations with regard to it, it cannot know emptiness directly. The word loneliness, with its memories of pain and fear, prevents the experiencing of it afresh. The word is memory, and when the word is no longer significant, then the relationship between the experiencer and the experienced is wholly different; then that relationship is direct and not through a word, through memory; then the experiencer is the experience, which alone brings freedom from fear.

(from here)

quotes —

Hi, great blog.

Comment by Jonathan — December 31, 2009 @ 4:20 am

Thanks Jonathan. I like your artwork as well. The motorcycle painting in particular is nice.

Comment by Ian — December 31, 2009 @ 9:20 am

I love this one.

Comment by Caitlin — January 4, 2010 @ 2:45 am

Yeah, me too. There’s a whole series on this same idea on the site I link to. Click “from here”… I’m slowly reading through them, one a day or so. Takes a while for each to really sink in.

Comment by Ian — January 4, 2010 @ 9:30 am

I guess I am moving towards a more magickal path of “immanetizing the eschaton” vs. contemplating emptiness. But it looks Like Krishnamurti is arrving at the same place. I always liked how he didn’t believe in teachers or even reading books, which I am not sure how literally he meant that.

He wasn’t an ascetic was he? He doesn’t strike me as one.

Comment by Ted — January 4, 2010 @ 4:56 pm

You may be confusing J Krishnamurti with UG Krishnamuri. UG was all about “no gurus!” though J was sort of along those lines as well…

As for ““immanetizing the eschaton” vs. contemplating emptiness” I think it just depends which side of the line you’re standing on when it all comes crashing down. :)

Does this mean you’re taking up The Baptist Head’s stuff? Between that and the magicKal, I can see it being a possibility.

It’s all good, so long as we finally end up not not here.

Comment by Ian — January 4, 2010 @ 5:20 pm

No, I haven’t been following that Baptist’s head site. I have just been working with with magick, kind of in an eclectic way, combined with shamanism.

Comment by Ted — January 5, 2010 @ 3:42 pm

Curious, what’s your source for the magick stuff?

Comment by Ian — January 5, 2010 @ 4:10 pm

Well,

I am reading a couple books now:
“Ascension Magick”

Also The Book of Lies

I want to get serious. I don’t want to just be a dabbler. I feel I have some magical ability naturally, so I want to channel that in a constructive disciplined way that is also specific to me.

in the “Book of Lies” Grant Morrison really interests me in how he created a “hyper Sigil” through his comic book writing. There are a lot of Artists featured in the book also. Art has been a magickal path for me my whole life, and interestingly, when I was a born again Christian for a while I instinctively new that I needed to give it up in order to be a good Christian.

plus I am planning to do “The Great Work” of alchemy. I have become very aware of my aura and several chakras and the energy of others and how this energy interacts but I cannot say that I am able to use this knowledge constructively at this point. I would like to.

Plus I have befriended some local people who are either Native American or sympathetic to Native American Spirituality and are into shamanism.

Comment by Ted — January 5, 2010 @ 6:46 pm

Maybe I should check out those Baptist Dudes. I am interested in working with my HGA.

Comment by Ted — January 5, 2010 @ 7:07 pm

Alan Chapman’s “Advanced Magick for Beginners” book is meant to be as a good introduction to that kind stuff (the Great Work, HGA, and so on). Haven’t done any of that myself, and don’t really plan to, but it might be worth checking out if you’re looking into that.

As for giving up magickal art for Christianity, I know why you say that. Dogmatic morality was (and is) a big damper on creativity for me, but funnily enough, I can also see magickal creativity as a longstanding part of Christianity. Look at the old bibles, like the Book of Kells, and Hildegard Von Bingham’s works. Hell, even Jung’s Red Book is full of Christian themes. There’s no real dispute between the two, I’d say, except for using magick to non-christian ends, but that’s a case of how you use the tool, not the tool itself.

Comment by Ian — January 6, 2010 @ 10:32 am

No, I would have to disagree.There is a really strong dynamic to Christianity that is hostile to Magick. There is a strong dynamic of giving away your power to God/Jesus etc.

You can’t reconcile it. If you want to move into extremely liberal and syncretic forms of Christianity, like what Jung and Steiner professed then you are probably right. Mystic strains, like William Blake etc. But that’s Heterodoxy, not Orthodoxy.

But Bible Thumping Christians will quote Leviticus, when it comes to Magick. You can say “Oh, those are just modern fundamentalist Christians, that have distorted the ‘original spirit’ of Christianity.”

But I would have to disagree. Its the same Spirit that inspired the passages in Leviticus. They know what they are talking about. Its an epistemology of “from authority” its hostile to divination, experience and things like that. Magick is the same now as it was in ancient times.

You could say that everything operates on Magickal principles, and that Church authorities have always operated on them and I would agree with that. But there are very mindful of eliminating competition and keeping the people from being spiritually sovereign.

Comment by Ted — January 6, 2010 @ 3:24 pm

Here is a copy of an e-mail I sent someone that gives you an idea of what I am interested in:

“Well, there is this book called “The Book of Lies: the disinformation guide to Magick and the Occult

Its a collection of articles about Magick and it features several Magickal Artists. So it reminded me that there is a magickal element to my artwork, because as a kid I believe I was channeling my ancestors and these archetypal figures, possibly Odin. You know how I would draw all of these old Viking dudes? I was probably channeling Odin. I even drew many of these Old Vikings with one Eye missing. Which I didn’t know then, but that’s related to one of the sagas, where Odin plucked his eye out.

One writer believes that Odin was an actual person, who has left ancestors among the descendants of Germanic peoples, which confers magickal abilities through the bloodline. There are possibly latent DNA codes involving magickal abilities that areactivated through trauma.

So anyway, I would draw in a receptive state, with no preconceived planning and just channel things. I was often in a magickal state as a kid, kind of spacey, which is the state to access other dimensions. I came pretty close to death several times as a child also, contracting pneumoniaand bronchitis, which could be viewed as a type of initiatory shamanic sickness, that activated the latent DNA codes.

So there are several artists like this, in the book.

So this one magickal artist, Spare, developed the idea of creating “sigils” which I shared with you once. Do you remember? They are little pictographs representing a thing you wish to manifest.

So That was further developed by a contemporary Comic book writer, named Grant Morrison. He created a “hyper sigil” in the form of a series of Comics. He then manifested in real life what he created as fiction.

The operating principle, I believe, is that magick occurs on a quantum level. Everything is energy that level. So you can channel these energies through Art and cause them to manifest in the mundane world, which is more dense. So its a way to shape your reality. You plant little seeds on a quantum level, which can gain energy and grow through larger and larger economies of scale.

So that’s it in a nutshell. That is what I am doing.

Comment by Ted — January 6, 2010 @ 3:26 pm

Those are some good points, Ted, I’ll have to think about this for a while. Points out a strong dichotomy of either giving up power or accepting sovereignty. I’m not sure I’m comfortable with either of those, though I’m also not sure if that’s a position I can maintain…

Good luck with the seed planting. Hope your garden grows true, good, and beautiful.

Comment by Ian — January 6, 2010 @ 3:42 pm

Thanx, Man!

You too, good luck with your writing. I would say your quality is pretty on par with any other writer I have read writing in the genre you would probably fall into- the Spiritual/Scientific speculative Nonfictiony type genre.

I have seen your writing improve quite a bit through your blog.

Comment by Ted — January 6, 2010 @ 3:54 pm

Thanks Ted, glad to know I’m not just imagining the benefits I feel this has brought to me. Although don’t be too quick to genre-ize me yet! :)

Comment by Ian — January 6, 2010 @ 3:59 pm

Yeah, after I wrote that I was wondering if maybe you would go in a totally different direction!

Comment by Ted — January 6, 2010 @ 4:27 pm

I’m hoping to, actually. We’ll see…

Comment by Ian — January 6, 2010 @ 4:32 pm

Reclusland

December 30, 2009

- Krishnamurti on Craving and The Word -

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