I wanted to connect with some Indians since I was a little kid and found it to be really hard and also, on one hand its not good to stereotype, even in a positive way, thinking they will all be really spiritually inclined and connected to the Earth, but on the other hand, I find some really are like that. Of course In the UK and Europe there are people living on ancestral lands for generations and generations also.

I didn’t either, but I was very pleasantly surprised.

>> Western Science can’t admit that the personal/subjective even exists

I guess that’s it. That’s the price the Enlightenment paid for releasing the genie from the bottle.

Yeah, me too. Possibly the best sci-fi since… well, since ‘Aliens’… ;D

>> King George=George Washington?

Dunno. Maybe King George of England, way back in the day.

‘Indian’ over here means curry. But we studied the settlement of America at school. All sorts of really gnarly stuff like ‘How is the native American’s definition of “medicine” different from the European definition? Discuss.’ And when I’ve had the chance to visit the States and Canada I’ve tried to keep an eye open.

The issue is this out-of-place-ness. Like, ‘who ordered THAT?’.

Yeah, that’s exactly it. I think it comes from the fact that Western Science can’t admit that the personal/subjective even exists. It’s world view doesn’t (maybe can’t) involve the first person perspective, so that’s where all it’s faults end up lying.

And, no, I haven’t seen Avatar yet. I do want to, but I do not have high expectations, other than the awesomeness of the effects.

That story brings to mind something from Gurdjieff’s “Meetings With Remarkable Men” where a young Yazidi child is trapped in a circle by some other kids and we learn that the Yazidi people are incapable of breaking out of any complete circle they are placed within. It’s later revealed that Yazidi are “devil worshippers”, though what one had to do with the other was never really clear to me…

@Ted:

I am not into that crap.

Yeah, me either. I’ve refused anti-depressants several times, and am happy to say that I definitely no longer need them.

So what do Brits know about Indians? Are they popular over there? Have you met any yourself?

I’ve had some interesting experiences with indians.

I want to see it again. I loved it on so many levels.

In fact I think you could say that about most things Western. Guns. Music. You name it.

The issue is this out-of-place-ness. Like, ‘who ordered THAT?’.

*

[My head's full of it, so I have to ask: seen Avatar yet?]

*

I am reminded of a (apocryphal?) story of early white settlers pursuing ‘Indians’, way up North towards the Canadian border. The border back then was a line of rocks. The Indians cross the line, the white folk stop at the rocks.

The Indians pull up.

They talk.

‘Who’s your chief?’ asks the Indian

‘King George [?],’ replies Whitey.

The Indian considers.

‘He got some powerful medicine,’ says the Indian, and rides off.

You know, I’d always wondered how you made a living. Good to know. It’s not for me, but I guess its as good as anything if it works for you.

I find your attitude interesting though. Is it that you don’t think the medicine has any major effect? And if you don’t believe in Western Medicine, do you have another system you follow?

And anyway, though I think you’re partially right, there’s a place for health care and doctors and medicine. Somewhere in the article it mentions that placebo’s don’t sure cancer. Sure, doctor’s don’t always cure cancer either, but the help. We’re currently, as a culture, in a place where the body’s ability to heal itself (among other abilities) are discounted in favor of more scientifically controllable processes.

And yes, that’s problematic, but how did we get here? The thing is, science is reliable, incredibly so, whereas simply wishing yourself well is not. What’s needed now is a balancing of the two, a way to open up science to the personal experience, to the powers of subjective thought and belief, without either limiting that power, nor abusing people with it (as science, being impersonal, has a tendency to do).

Its only when we can accept the personal world as it relates to the rational world that we’ll be able to make any progress here…

But then it slowly became an impersonal capitalist thing and an impersonal government thing. All these Liberals are wrong too. Free Government Healthcare for everyone won’t give people their power back.

All the power will still be in the hands of “experts” and Government Bureaucrats and The same Pharmaceutical companies.

The way to go is to take responsibility for your own health and well being.

I know its all bullshit. Most of these drugs don’t do crap. They are just poisons. But, not really strong poisons. Its hard to generalize, they are all different. But most of them don’t do shit and they keep cranking out new ones to keep making money off of them.

So I am a tester. Lots of people find that alarming and would never do it, but at the same time they buy into Western medicine, which I don’t. I would never take a prescription drug, unless I was getting paid to.

Its like I’ll be a whore but not a sucker.