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	<title>Comments on: The Illusion of Conscious Will</title>
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	<link>http://www.reclusland.com/compass/2010/02/02/the-illusion-of-conscious-will/</link>
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		<title>By: speedbird</title>
		<link>http://www.reclusland.com/compass/2010/02/02/the-illusion-of-conscious-will/comment-page-1/#comment-7946</link>
		<dc:creator>speedbird</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 03 Feb 2010 19:08:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.reclusland.com/compass/?p=2813#comment-7946</guid>
		<description>&gt;&gt; a lot of digging

Oh yeah. Phase I went through :)

But still, the Son of the Widow Lady is a fascinating rabbithole.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&gt;&gt; a lot of digging</p>
<p>Oh yeah. Phase I went through :)</p>
<p>But still, the Son of the Widow Lady is a fascinating rabbithole.</p>
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		<title>By: Ian</title>
		<link>http://www.reclusland.com/compass/2010/02/02/the-illusion-of-conscious-will/comment-page-1/#comment-7945</link>
		<dc:creator>Ian</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 03 Feb 2010 19:06:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.reclusland.com/compass/?p=2813#comment-7945</guid>
		<description>&lt;a href=&quot;http://kennethfolkdharma.wetpaint.com/page/Commentary+on+van+der+Hut%27s+Summary+of+Aziz+Kristof&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;This is interesting as well.&lt;/a&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><a href="http://kennethfolkdharma.wetpaint.com/page/Commentary+on+van+der+Hut%27s+Summary+of+Aziz+Kristof" rel="nofollow">This is interesting as well.</a></p>
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		<title>By: Ian</title>
		<link>http://www.reclusland.com/compass/2010/02/02/the-illusion-of-conscious-will/comment-page-1/#comment-7943</link>
		<dc:creator>Ian</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 03 Feb 2010 18:43:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.reclusland.com/compass/?p=2813#comment-7943</guid>
		<description>Ha!  Well, shows what I know.  I should look more into the Mason&#039;s I guess.  But they&#039;re too surrounded by conspiracy static to get anything worthwhile without alot of digging.  

But in the end, we&#039;re talking about the same thing, or at least very similar.  What we choose to &lt;em&gt;do &lt;/em&gt;about that fact is what&#039;s different.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ha!  Well, shows what I know.  I should look more into the Mason&#8217;s I guess.  But they&#8217;re too surrounded by conspiracy static to get anything worthwhile without alot of digging.  </p>
<p>But in the end, we&#8217;re talking about the same thing, or at least very similar.  What we choose to <em>do </em>about that fact is what&#8217;s different.</p>
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		<title>By: speedbird</title>
		<link>http://www.reclusland.com/compass/2010/02/02/the-illusion-of-conscious-will/comment-page-1/#comment-7940</link>
		<dc:creator>speedbird</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 03 Feb 2010 17:06:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.reclusland.com/compass/?p=2813#comment-7940</guid>
		<description>&quot;Is there no help for the widow’s son?&quot; is the Masons&#039; distress call. The widow&#039;s son is also another name for the knight Perceval, who achieved the Grail.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;Is there no help for the widow’s son?&#8221; is the Masons&#8217; distress call. The widow&#8217;s son is also another name for the knight Perceval, who achieved the Grail.</p>
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		<title>By: Ian</title>
		<link>http://www.reclusland.com/compass/2010/02/02/the-illusion-of-conscious-will/comment-page-1/#comment-7937</link>
		<dc:creator>Ian</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 03 Feb 2010 16:18:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.reclusland.com/compass/?p=2813#comment-7937</guid>
		<description>From my friend Jaimin&#039;s blog:

&lt;a href=&quot;http://deconstructionjunction.wordpress.com/2010/02/03/the-divinity-and-power-of-words-in-ukei/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Hence the Ukei was the central mystery of the Divine Ritual. Its practice, however, had fallen into abeyance for centuries, and thus it was that Oen had striven for its revival so that, in this confused world, men might once more attain the guidance of the gods and have the divine will manifested to them. &lt;/a&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>From my friend Jaimin&#8217;s blog:</p>
<p><a href="http://deconstructionjunction.wordpress.com/2010/02/03/the-divinity-and-power-of-words-in-ukei/" rel="nofollow">Hence the Ukei was the central mystery of the Divine Ritual. Its practice, however, had fallen into abeyance for centuries, and thus it was that Oen had striven for its revival so that, in this confused world, men might once more attain the guidance of the gods and have the divine will manifested to them. </a></p>
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		<title>By: Ian</title>
		<link>http://www.reclusland.com/compass/2010/02/02/the-illusion-of-conscious-will/comment-page-1/#comment-7935</link>
		<dc:creator>Ian</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 03 Feb 2010 15:52:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.reclusland.com/compass/?p=2813#comment-7935</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;Is this supposed to be telling us something?&lt;/blockquote&gt;

Yeah.  It tells us there&#039;s something wrong with the story arc. ;)

Seriously though, maybe the loneliness really is at the heart of it.  I heard one time, completely out of context, an old saying that I believe is a Sufi saying: &quot;Is there no hope for the widow&#039;s son?&quot;

I don;t know what was meant by this originally, but it brought to mind for me the fact that the human situation could be compared to that of a single-parent child.  We have this planet we live on, that created and nurtures us, but no one to show us the &lt;em&gt;way &lt;/em&gt;of doing things, of how to function in/as a society (something that, generically, the father&#039;s role usually fulfills on an individual level) so we just have to make it us as we go along.  

ie: we&#039;re lonely and we want guidance.

I&#039;m sure there&#039;s arguments to be made against this, but the point is that there is an inherent longing in our depths for &lt;em&gt;something&lt;/em&gt; and there&#039;s plenty of ways to describe.  Loneliness is as good as anything else, and more appropriate because we &lt;strong&gt;alone&lt;/strong&gt; have been given dominion over the earth...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>Is this supposed to be telling us something?</p></blockquote>
<p>Yeah.  It tells us there&#8217;s something wrong with the story arc. ;)</p>
<p>Seriously though, maybe the loneliness really is at the heart of it.  I heard one time, completely out of context, an old saying that I believe is a Sufi saying: &#8220;Is there no hope for the widow&#8217;s son?&#8221;</p>
<p>I don;t know what was meant by this originally, but it brought to mind for me the fact that the human situation could be compared to that of a single-parent child.  We have this planet we live on, that created and nurtures us, but no one to show us the <em>way </em>of doing things, of how to function in/as a society (something that, generically, the father&#8217;s role usually fulfills on an individual level) so we just have to make it us as we go along.  </p>
<p>ie: we&#8217;re lonely and we want guidance.</p>
<p>I&#8217;m sure there&#8217;s arguments to be made against this, but the point is that there is an inherent longing in our depths for <em>something</em> and there&#8217;s plenty of ways to describe.  Loneliness is as good as anything else, and more appropriate because we <strong>alone</strong> have been given dominion over the earth&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: speedbird</title>
		<link>http://www.reclusland.com/compass/2010/02/02/the-illusion-of-conscious-will/comment-page-1/#comment-7933</link>
		<dc:creator>speedbird</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 03 Feb 2010 15:20:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.reclusland.com/compass/?p=2813#comment-7933</guid>
		<description>Cool, our comments crossed in the ether.

&gt;&gt; made us the way we are

Something that&#039;s bugged me about Genesis for a while now: everything is good UNTIL God sees that the Man is lonely. Is this supposed to be telling us something?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Cool, our comments crossed in the ether.</p>
<p>&gt;&gt; made us the way we are</p>
<p>Something that&#8217;s bugged me about Genesis for a while now: everything is good UNTIL God sees that the Man is lonely. Is this supposed to be telling us something?</p>
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		<title>By: speedbird</title>
		<link>http://www.reclusland.com/compass/2010/02/02/the-illusion-of-conscious-will/comment-page-1/#comment-7932</link>
		<dc:creator>speedbird</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 03 Feb 2010 15:11:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.reclusland.com/compass/?p=2813#comment-7932</guid>
		<description>Thinking further, I&#039;d contest the point that we always &#039;know the right thing to do&#039;. Especially in any matter of Design. Perhaps we recognize it if we see it, but that is a different thing.

As for the Will, this remains interesting:

http://www.reclusland.com/compass/2009/12/15/francesco-petrarca-on-the-emotions-of-morality/</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thinking further, I&#8217;d contest the point that we always &#8216;know the right thing to do&#8217;. Especially in any matter of Design. Perhaps we recognize it if we see it, but that is a different thing.</p>
<p>As for the Will, this remains interesting:</p>
<p><a href="http://www.reclusland.com/compass/2009/12/15/francesco-petrarca-on-the-emotions-of-morality/" rel="nofollow">http://www.reclusland.com/compass/2009/12/15/francesco-petrarca-on-the-emotions-of-morality/</a></p>
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		<title>By: Ian</title>
		<link>http://www.reclusland.com/compass/2010/02/02/the-illusion-of-conscious-will/comment-page-1/#comment-7931</link>
		<dc:creator>Ian</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 03 Feb 2010 15:07:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.reclusland.com/compass/?p=2813#comment-7931</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;’stupid things we do because we’re not quite finished yet’&lt;/blockquote&gt;

Yes yes yes!  

And, again yes, I am sure my nitpicking here comes more from my Catholic guilt then from anything the good Bishop intended.  For me, sin was something horrible, something that you always had to watch out for, because it was:
1) part of your nature
2) could sneak up on you without your noticing
3) caused you to be damned for hell to all eternity

I think it was the cognitive dissonance between the unforgiving nature of god and the fact that he made us the way we are (let alone the fact that god was all loving as well...).  Seemed like not really a fair deal to me at the time.  Now I can better understand what is meant by all these things, but when I was a kid it was pretty neuroses inducing...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>’stupid things we do because we’re not quite finished yet’</p></blockquote>
<p>Yes yes yes!  </p>
<p>And, again yes, I am sure my nitpicking here comes more from my Catholic guilt then from anything the good Bishop intended.  For me, sin was something horrible, something that you always had to watch out for, because it was:<br />
1) part of your nature<br />
2) could sneak up on you without your noticing<br />
3) caused you to be damned for hell to all eternity</p>
<p>I think it was the cognitive dissonance between the unforgiving nature of god and the fact that he made us the way we are (let alone the fact that god was all loving as well&#8230;).  Seemed like not really a fair deal to me at the time.  Now I can better understand what is meant by all these things, but when I was a kid it was pretty neuroses inducing&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: speedbird</title>
		<link>http://www.reclusland.com/compass/2010/02/02/the-illusion-of-conscious-will/comment-page-1/#comment-7926</link>
		<dc:creator>speedbird</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 03 Feb 2010 08:11:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.reclusland.com/compass/?p=2813#comment-7926</guid>
		<description>I mean, I was brought up with &#039;sin&#039; as &#039;a big list of things for which you will be punished&#039;. Having it as &#039;stupid things we do because we&#039;re not quite finished yet&#039; feels strangely liberating.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I mean, I was brought up with &#8216;sin&#8217; as &#8216;a big list of things for which you will be punished&#8217;. Having it as &#8216;stupid things we do because we&#8217;re not quite finished yet&#8217; feels strangely liberating.</p>
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		<title>By: speedbird</title>
		<link>http://www.reclusland.com/compass/2010/02/02/the-illusion-of-conscious-will/comment-page-1/#comment-7918</link>
		<dc:creator>speedbird</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 02 Feb 2010 23:10:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.reclusland.com/compass/?p=2813#comment-7918</guid>
		<description>Fair enough. I didn&#039;t get that vibe... but then I don&#039;t really have any Catholic guilt. :) In fact I just picked up &#039;sin&#039; as &#039;the tendency to make mistakes&#039;. And something about perfect design being devilish tricky, which made sense. But hey. More tomorrow.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Fair enough. I didn&#8217;t get that vibe&#8230; but then I don&#8217;t really have any Catholic guilt. :) In fact I just picked up &#8216;sin&#8217; as &#8216;the tendency to make mistakes&#8217;. And something about perfect design being devilish tricky, which made sense. But hey. More tomorrow.</p>
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		<title>By: Ian</title>
		<link>http://www.reclusland.com/compass/2010/02/02/the-illusion-of-conscious-will/comment-page-1/#comment-7915</link>
		<dc:creator>Ian</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 02 Feb 2010 22:44:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.reclusland.com/compass/?p=2813#comment-7915</guid>
		<description>This I like:
&lt;blockquote&gt;There is something about human nature that is not complete: we are on the way, we are still developing. … &lt;/blockquote&gt;

But this:
&lt;blockquote&gt;We know what the right thing to do is, but there is &lt;em&gt;something perverse and destructive&lt;/em&gt; that leads us, often against our best joy, to oppose it.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

and this:
&lt;blockquote&gt;any blueprint for a &lt;em&gt;perfect &lt;/em&gt;society that &lt;em&gt;you conceive and manage to institute&lt;/em&gt; would shipwreck on this &lt;em&gt;insane &lt;/em&gt;characteristic.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

have too much catholic guilt for me.  that second quote&#039;s a bit elitist as well.

But I can&#039;t say he&#039;s a bad guy because of it, just that the whole &quot;sin&quot; as a flaw doesn&#039;t sit well with me (too much of my own Catholic guilt, I&#039;m sure).  I&#039;m much more into &quot;sin&quot; as a mistake or failure, rather than as some sort of evil force, more a misuse of the good.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This I like:</p>
<blockquote><p>There is something about human nature that is not complete: we are on the way, we are still developing. … </p></blockquote>
<p>But this:</p>
<blockquote><p>We know what the right thing to do is, but there is <em>something perverse and destructive</em> that leads us, often against our best joy, to oppose it.</p></blockquote>
<p>and this:</p>
<blockquote><p>any blueprint for a <em>perfect </em>society that <em>you conceive and manage to institute</em> would shipwreck on this <em>insane </em>characteristic.</p></blockquote>
<p>have too much catholic guilt for me.  that second quote&#8217;s a bit elitist as well.</p>
<p>But I can&#8217;t say he&#8217;s a bad guy because of it, just that the whole &#8220;sin&#8221; as a flaw doesn&#8217;t sit well with me (too much of my own Catholic guilt, I&#8217;m sure).  I&#8217;m much more into &#8220;sin&#8221; as a mistake or failure, rather than as some sort of evil force, more a misuse of the good.</p>
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		<title>By: speedbird</title>
		<link>http://www.reclusland.com/compass/2010/02/02/the-illusion-of-conscious-will/comment-page-1/#comment-7913</link>
		<dc:creator>speedbird</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 02 Feb 2010 21:51:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.reclusland.com/compass/?p=2813#comment-7913</guid>
		<description>Man, this guy I&#039;m reading is good:

&quot;I know the right thing to do, it is rarely ignorance that is my problem. The real problem is a will problem not a know problem. We know what the right thing to do is, but there is something perverse and destructive that leads us, often against our best joy, to oppose it. There is both a compulsive wilfulness about it and a helplessness. There is something about human nature that is not complete: we are on the way, we are still developing. ... You can almost predict that any blueprint for a perfect society that you conceive and manage to institute would shipwreck on this insane characteristic.&quot;

- Richard Holloway, Bishop of Edinburgh, on &#039;sin&#039;.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Man, this guy I&#8217;m reading is good:</p>
<p>&#8220;I know the right thing to do, it is rarely ignorance that is my problem. The real problem is a will problem not a know problem. We know what the right thing to do is, but there is something perverse and destructive that leads us, often against our best joy, to oppose it. There is both a compulsive wilfulness about it and a helplessness. There is something about human nature that is not complete: we are on the way, we are still developing. &#8230; You can almost predict that any blueprint for a perfect society that you conceive and manage to institute would shipwreck on this insane characteristic.&#8221;</p>
<p>- Richard Holloway, Bishop of Edinburgh, on &#8216;sin&#8217;.</p>
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		<title>By: Ian</title>
		<link>http://www.reclusland.com/compass/2010/02/02/the-illusion-of-conscious-will/comment-page-1/#comment-7910</link>
		<dc:creator>Ian</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 02 Feb 2010 19:27:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.reclusland.com/compass/?p=2813#comment-7910</guid>
		<description>Heh.  It still makes me happy to this day that I chose &quot;compass&quot; as the unofficial name for this blog &lt;em&gt;(reclusland.com/compass)&lt;/em&gt;.  I&#039;d originally wanted to go with &quot;leaves&quot; (as in &quot;leaves of grass&quot;) but it didn&#039;t quite feel right.  My girlfriend suggested &quot;compass&quot; and it&#039;s proved to be a beautiful fit thus far.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Heh.  It still makes me happy to this day that I chose &#8220;compass&#8221; as the unofficial name for this blog <em>(reclusland.com/compass)</em>.  I&#8217;d originally wanted to go with &#8220;leaves&#8221; (as in &#8220;leaves of grass&#8221;) but it didn&#8217;t quite feel right.  My girlfriend suggested &#8220;compass&#8221; and it&#8217;s proved to be a beautiful fit thus far.</p>
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		<title>By: Jaimin</title>
		<link>http://www.reclusland.com/compass/2010/02/02/the-illusion-of-conscious-will/comment-page-1/#comment-7909</link>
		<dc:creator>Jaimin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 02 Feb 2010 19:04:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.reclusland.com/compass/?p=2813#comment-7909</guid>
		<description>*LOVE* the compass analogy. There&#039;s a universe of profundity in that &quot;simple&quot; illustration.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>*LOVE* the compass analogy. There&#8217;s a universe of profundity in that &#8220;simple&#8221; illustration.</p>
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		<title>By: Ian</title>
		<link>http://www.reclusland.com/compass/2010/02/02/the-illusion-of-conscious-will/comment-page-1/#comment-7908</link>
		<dc:creator>Ian</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 02 Feb 2010 18:36:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.reclusland.com/compass/?p=2813#comment-7908</guid>
		<description>And, to tie this back into the Virginia Woolf article, this same &quot;compass&quot; function could be mapped onto our storytelling, leftbrain, ordered, logical, system...

Brings to mind this old post:

&lt;a href=&quot;http://www.reclusland.com/compass/2008/12/21/god-is-a-direction/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;&quot;That which we are made to seek is really just a direction in which to move, a current.&quot;&lt;/a&gt;

We are given stories to move us (by ourselves, to ourselves) but the story is merely the vehicle for the movement, not the movement itself.  First the movement changes, then the story does.  Guard your thoughts (and hence your stories) well...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>And, to tie this back into the Virginia Woolf article, this same &#8220;compass&#8221; function could be mapped onto our storytelling, leftbrain, ordered, logical, system&#8230;</p>
<p>Brings to mind this old post:</p>
<p><a href="http://www.reclusland.com/compass/2008/12/21/god-is-a-direction/" rel="nofollow">&#8220;That which we are made to seek is really just a direction in which to move, a current.&#8221;</a></p>
<p>We are given stories to move us (by ourselves, to ourselves) but the story is merely the vehicle for the movement, not the movement itself.  First the movement changes, then the story does.  Guard your thoughts (and hence your stories) well&#8230;</p>
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