April 8, 2010
- Sesshin! -
So I’m off for another sesshin, this time at the temple in Brooklyn. I’ll be beyond the realms of electronic communication for the next 4 days (no verbal communication either, for that matter), and back here probably on Monday.
Tongue planted firmly in cheek, I have to admit that I can’t hear the word sesshin without thinking of this old Offspring song:
Session! I’ll never learn
Session! God knows I try
Session! Keep coming back for session and I don’t know why
Session! I’ll never learn,
Session! I’ll never see
Session! Just tell me why these sessions got a hold on, got another hold on me
I love these guys. Even with Pretty Fly for a White Guy taken into account…
Good luck and tell us how it went.
Sesshin!
Comment by Pavel — April 13, 2010 @ 7:32 am
Thanks Pavel. It went well, a really intense few days. I had the chance to have Dokusan with the Temple’s abbot and I cleared up some uncertainties about my zazen.
I feel like my practice has finally gotten traction, like there’s a little space opened up for it to move in. My daily sits have been going well too. They’ve been a bit unpleasant lately, kind of sharp with a lot of movement, but its weird, I still feel they’re going well. Like I’m finally having a chance to work with my unskillful mind, rather than just watch it, or chase it around in circles.
The temple’s not a large building and there were only about 30 people, so the feeling of community was strong. Made me consider doing a residency period there, perhaps, at some time in the future.
If there’s anything you (or anyone else who reads these comments) are curious about, let me know. I’m happy to answer as best I can.
Comment by Ian — April 14, 2010 @ 1:43 pm
All of that sounds great, super to hear that your meditation is going well an that you cleared up some issues. Out of interest, could you clarify what you mean by the difference between working with the mind, watching it, or chasing it around?
All the best in all future endeavours.
Comment by Pavel — April 15, 2010 @ 11:29 am
Hard questions, Pavel, as always. :)
I’m sure I’ve said it before, but it bears repeating here (for the sake of anyone stumbling upon this conversation) that my form of practice at this time is to follow my breath. I’ve heard it said that, when following the breath, a moment comes where you become the breath, and that’s sort of the overriding outline within which I practice. Not as a specific goal, but more the overall general background theme of my practice, sort of the intent I have as I go into it (since I don’t yet seem to be able to “go into it” without having some basic “intent”).
Anyway, what I was doing before was mainly just watching my breath, seeing it as an object, and the more I did this, the more I realized I was treating it as something that existed externally to the watching part of my mind. This is what I meant by watching it. But this started to feel wrong, because it was separating “self” and “breath”, and seemed to be contradictory to the idea of practice.
Then I’d sort of try to push myself into the breath, mentally, to lower my awareness down into my hara (zen term for the lower belly) in the hopes that it would sort of merge with the breath. But when I pushed my attention downwards, the sense of the breath would close up and harden and I felt it pull away from me. This is what I meant by “chasing it around”. Maybe not exactly chasing, but I think it explains the point.
I didn’t describe it to the teacher quite as well as this (face-to-face meeting kind of make me nervous) but what I essentially got out of the meeting was that this “chasing” was too much an act of will, and that a more “open up, drop into the breath” approach was needed. “Forget yourself in the breath” he said, which, I note, does not necessarily imply a loss of awareness. It’s advice that obviously could be taken the wrong way, into a drift into lala-land, but so long as consciousness of the breath is maintained, a drift like that isn’t really possible. Maintain the breath-awareness, but forget the self-awareness, something like that.
So, doing this, my meditation has shown a few physical results (the feelings of energy releasing, small blockages opening up) and also I’ve had the strange experience of falling asleep during meditation, but waking up moments later feeling like I hadn’t stopped meditating. This is new for me, usually falling asleep and waking up would mean I’d have a feeling of needing to start over. Now it doesn’t quite seem like that.
Also, the thoughts that used to pull me away completely seem slightly less “me” and more like something that’s happening to me inside my head (very strange). And like the dozing off, the meditation seems to continue on even though part of my mind is engaged elsewhere.
So, to me, this feels like an engagement both with the breathe itself and with a process going on below the conscious mind, that which makes me breathe. Obviously I don’t want my consciousness to take over the breathing, but I do want to be aligned with the part of me that does control the breathing. I do not want to be at-odds with that, so to speak.
Also, involved is a growing faith in this very process, the feeling that there is something in me that is guiding things, rather than there being something I have to find to be guided by. Its guiding me whether or not I find it, I just have to stop getting in the way, learn to watch it, and see if it is ever possible to learn to act with it. Of course, I don’t expect that be an easy thing to learn. :)
Hope my explanation is helpful. How goes your practice? What have you been up to lately?
Comment by Ian — April 15, 2010 @ 1:15 pm
Wow. That didn’t look nearly as long when I was typing it in this little box down here… :)
Comment by Ian — April 15, 2010 @ 1:16 pm
So, doing this, my meditation has shown a few physical results (the feelings of energy releasing, small blockages opening up) and also I’ve had the strange experience of falling asleep during meditation, but waking up moments later feeling like I hadn’t stopped meditating. This is new for me, usually falling asleep and waking up would mean I’d have a feeling of needing to start over. Now it doesn’t quite seem like that.
Yeah, I have had precisely the same results. The advice I was given was to a) stop controlling and b) not to look for what I want to observe, rather observe what is there at that moment (ie. I would be hoping for flickering sensations when instead I was observing something more solid and slower). But the results I had from following the advice were identical to yours.
Also, the thoughts that used to pull me away completely seem slightly less “me” and more like something that’s happening to me inside my head (very strange). And like the dozing off, the meditation seems to continue on even though part of my mind is engaged elsewhere.
Given that thoughts are also sensations, happening of their own accord, this must be a great sign!
Also, involved is a growing faith in this very process, the feeling that there is something in me that is guiding things, rather than there being something I have to find to be guided by. Its guiding me whether or not I find it, I just have to stop getting in the way, learn to watch it, and see if it is ever possible to learn to act with it. Of course, I don’t expect that be an easy thing to learn. :)
Awesome! What a great motivation.
How goes your practice? What have you been up to lately?
I didnt practice for about two weeks while I had a flu and was suffering from a heavy hit of Dark Night, having just returned from a holiday in Prague. Then it dawned on me that practice was the only thing that was going to take me through so I started going running, working out and practicing all the outdoor stuff to strengthen my will/resolve and then got back into meditation, breaking through the Dark Night fairly quickly. I still do not know how to handle the debilitating effects that Dark Nighting has on me, I generally close down and do everything I can not to have to pay attention to it (immersing rather than observing), the day that I learn how to take the tough shit as it comes will be the day that I have really achieved something :-) Otherwise (includingwise), all is well and hopeful.
Are you still thinking of starting parkour? I am about to start going to classes here next Monday.
Comment by Pavel — April 16, 2010 @ 7:17 am
Funny how we received pretty much the same advice… And got the same results! I actually wouldn’t expect that to be the case, since everyone’s psychic landscape is laid our differently.
But we are both fans of the Danial Ingram approach, and this seems to be the problem with being so open with the maps and models, making people try to push ahead of where they’re at. :)
What kind of group are you studying with?
The body practice has really been a key element of getting my meditation back on track as well. I noticed after the sesshin that I felt really focused, but also spacey and light headed. My girlfriend and I went out to a bar-restaurant for diner the night after and between the music, TV and other people’s conversations, I felt completely overwhelmed. Not all that badly, but it wasn’t a pleasant experience and I kind of shut down.
The next morning I got up meditated, noticed the spaciness, and then afterwords worked out and the spaciness was just gone. I was much more grounded, though still very focused. Since then, the level of focus has dropped, but I’ve decided that next time I go to a sesshin, I’m making a point of getting up a little early and doing some sort of purely physical exercise. Walking meditation just isn’t enough to keep me grounded, especially since I spend most days at a desk in front of a computer…
As far as facing the Dark Night, I just keep reminding myself that I’m being shown it for a reason, and that the reason is NOT to overwhelm me with horribleness. So I do my best to take it as it comes, focus on what it is, with the trust that I’ll never be given more than I can handle. I’m coming to find out recently just how much faith is an important part of the path for me.
And Parkour? Well, I’ve been to two classes already, mainly a lot of crosstraining and then practicing how to squat properly (for landnings) and then jumping onto and off of a box (that’s about 2 feet high or so).
Then I got sick and missed a week, then it was my girlfriends birthday and I missed a week, then it was the same day I’d gotten out of sesshin and I missed a week. So I’m kind of starting over again this coming Sunday. But I really enjoy the cross training aspect of it, and being in an environment where I see people practicing the more complicated stuff is pretty inspiring.
I think, with your martial arts background, you might have an easier time getting into it. Good luck, and let us know how it goes!
Comment by Ian — April 16, 2010 @ 12:03 pm
Some advice from Kenneth Folk
Yes, I had horrible depression right up until 4th Path. Looking back, I think part of the problem may have been that I wasn’t diligent enough in working on the fundamentals; I thought I was too advanced to bother with daily noting practice. That’s one of the reasons I’m so adamant lately that everyone continue to do all three gears throughout their lives, no matter their attainment. Even now, although depression seems to have gone away, I spend quite a bit of time each day noting body sensations, feeling tone, mind states, and thoughts. The conditioning of a lifetime doesn’t just disappear even after enlightenment, so it’s the work of a lifetime to dis-embed from experience moment by moment. Luckily, it’s so delightful to be dis-embedded that noting practice becmomes a labor of love rather than a burden.
When you are going through the dark night and suffering with the difficult mind states that can arise there, I recommend being especially diligent with 1st Gear noting practice whenever the dark moods begin to color your experience. The sooner you interrupt the downward spiral of negativity by noting, e.g., “despair, sadness, frustration, grief, hopelessness, anger, bitterness, hatred, rage,” the better. You will also notice that interspersed with these so-called negative mind states are momentary flashes of joy, happiness, contentment, exhilaration, wonder, curiosity, amusement, etc. It’s only our half-awakeness that causes mind state like hopelessness to take over, become “emotions” and lay like a blanket over our entire day, coloring everything a dismal shade of grey. When you feel hopelessness or cynicism, go immediately to noting and get free of it before it gains momentum.
Context available here. The above comment is #98 FWIW. :)
Comment by Ian — April 16, 2010 @ 3:17 pm
Funny how we received pretty much the same advice… And got the same results! I actually wouldn’t expect that to be the case, since everyone’s psychic landscape is laid our differently.
There may be two reasons for this, the most obvious one is that trying too hard/forcing your attention/having expectations is a common problem, especially as you have noticed, among followers of the hardcore school of meditation :-) The other one is that the stages of insight apply to everyone (including a friend of mine who does not formally meditate yet cycles) – try re-reading the chapter in MCTB on stages of insight and see if anything applies. What always hits me on the head like a hammer is how much changes in each stage – the width of attention, strength of focus, propensity towards certain phenomena (ie. sometimes thought or visual sensations are almost non-existent, in some stages they are almost inescapable).
The grounding argument is interesting, I know that in most retreats they strongly discourage anything else than meditation since you do not want to ground yourself if you are doing insight, you just want to get as far as possible. The teacher that I contacted for advice gave me similar advice, she said that if I am after stream entry, I should minimize my life as much as possible, let hobbies slide for a while and concentrate fully on insight. I followed this advice for a time with some very good results. Now, I am not 100% bent on insight so I combine it with other things, finding out that this works too and makes life so much easier – being grounded and generally experiencing more pleasant sensations (due to exercising, stretching, other body work) makes for a nicer time more often and my insight does not appear to suffer (ie. there is progress).
As far as facing the Dark Night, I just keep reminding myself that I’m being shown it for a reason, and that the reason is NOT to overwhelm me with horribleness. So I do my best to take it as it comes, focus on what it is, with the trust that I’ll never be given more than I can handle. I’m coming to find out recently just how much faith is an important part of the path for me.
I find and lose this knowledge all the time. In the middle parts of the Night it is extremely hard for me to remember that it is happening for a reason and equally hard to muster enough resolve to do something about it (which, in my opinion is necessary), I am getting better at both though. Equally, the feeling of being guided that you mentioned earlier is pretty much always missing while I am in the Dark Night, making desperation more automatic, as there is a strong sense of loss (especially loss of clarity, direction and certainty). I recognize that all of this has a lot to do with my personality and certain habits that I have, which I am also in the process of changing.
Great to hear that parkour is going well, it is such an amazing sport/activity/… I have already done a bit before but it dawned on me recently that there was a huge difference between what I was learning and what the discipline could offer, ie. I need to start going to classes and take it as seriously as I take everything else if I wan to improve to a feasible level. And yes, I love the fact that parkour combines strength/flexibility with body movement, working on fear and boundaries, as well as a beautiful philosophy (check out the meaning of the word yamakasi, which is how the founders of parkour named themselves). Have fun with it :-)
And thank you for that Kenneth Folk quote, it is as always, insanely concise, accurate and helpful! How does he manage to shorten his stuff like that and still keep the message so clear?
Comment by Pavel — April 17, 2010 @ 7:44 am
(speaking of long posts)
Comment by Pavel — April 17, 2010 @ 7:45 am
Where is the temple in Brooklyn? Who do they accept to go and meditate in retreat there? I’m not on your same path, but I certainly need a clearing out right now…
Enjoying the new format of your site, the quick shots of contemplative thought. It works.
Peace.
Comment by cadeveo — April 18, 2010 @ 5:13 pm
@Pavel:
I’m only about 1/2 way through MCTB, and haven’t gotten to the part about the stages of insight yet, but I’ll certainly pay attention when I get there.
As for grounding, I think it comes out of my brushes with the Gurdjieff teachings, in that body, emotions, and intellect must all be worked on together, or else we end up out of synch. That’s something that feels important to me, and lacking from a lot of spiritual traditions (in that they tend to overemphasize one aspect over the others). Just means its our jobs to stay balanced ourselves.
However, I actually would love a chance to focus on insight a little more intently. That idea of letting hobbies slide appeals to be a bit, though I also wonder what else I could let go of… The idea of arranging our lives to support our practice has been a touchstone for me over the recent months, though it has yet to bear any fruit. Sounds like you’ve got a fairly good system going though.
The parkour, as you may have noticed, though still a lot of fun, has had some rather negative repercussions on my ability to move about recently. Still, I’m taking it in stride and hope to get back to class in a week or two. And thanks for the mention of yamakasi, thats a key fact about the start of the movement that I hadn’t known before. Good luck with your classes!
And lastly, as for that feeling of guidance, I too have felt that its not there. But it has to be. Its the absolute. Its there, even in the negativity, as Kenneth says. And yes, Kenneth certainly has quite a way with words. I recommend checking out his site regularly. :)
Comment by Ian — April 21, 2010 @ 10:47 am
@ cadeveo
Good to hear from you here, and thanks for the compliments! I’m loving the Scientology posts you’ve been putting up, great stuff. Sad to see your leaving the blogsphere behind, though i can certainly appreciate the sentiment…
The temple’s open to all, though they ask that you attend a Sunday morning service for (very minimal) instruction first. Sunday morning goes from about 9:30 (9:15 if its your first time) to about 12:30~1:00. It involves some chanting, two periods of meditation, and a talk. Definitely a good way to settle things down a bit.
Let me know if you’re stopping by. I won’t be there this Sunday, but should be going next week. Would love to meet up and discuss the relative virtues of relative paths. :)
If you’re looking for a longer time frame, they do offer residency programs, or you could always go up to the monastery for a bit more space/nature. However, from my experience (and from what I’ve heard of the residency programs), the emphasis is definitely on the training aspect of things more than on a retreat. If you’re looking for simple peace and quite, it might not be the best place (particularly if you’re not into early mornings!).
But they certainly do welcome everybody, and I’d say its worth checking out. If you have any more questions feel free to hit me up.
Comment by Ian — April 21, 2010 @ 11:10 am
I’m only about 1/2 way through MCTB, and haven’t gotten to the part about the stages of insight yet, but I’ll certainly pay attention when I get there.
I would skip the chapter about Buddhist culture and go straight for the stages of insight, in a lot of ways it is the most useful part of the book and it may give you some insight into your current practice. It will only take an hour to read. Also, it is most definitely relevant to your type of practice.
However, I actually would love a chance to focus on insight a little more intently. That idea of letting hobbies slide appeals to be a bit, though I also wonder what else I could let go of… The idea of arranging our lives to support our practice has been a touchstone for me over the recent months, though it has yet to bear any fruit. Sounds like you’ve got a fairly good system going though.
Well, it is a balancing act like everything else. I do not do a job that I particularly enjoy and I am very poor, both of which cause problems, there is a middle way there too I am sure :-)
The parkour, as you may have noticed, though still a lot of fun, has had some rather negative repercussions on my ability to move about recently. Still, I’m taking it in stride and hope to get back to class in a week or two. And thanks for the mention of yamakasi, thats a key fact about the start of the movement that I hadn’t known before. Good luck with your classes!
I have had a back injury for some 2 years now which parkour continuously makes worse so I feel your pain (literally). For me it has a lot to do with my posture (bad head/shoulder position and shortened chest from working out) and rubbish core strength/stability. Since I have realized this I have started doing some core conditioning and working on my posture, hopefully it will work, otherwise I wont be able to train in parkour anymore, which I wouldnt like much. Also, I have a huge respect for osteopaths who have helped me sort my back out before and who have pointed me to what I need to do to continue the healing/strengthening, I can only recommend checking one out.
As always, all the best and a smooth recovery!
Comment by Pavel — April 23, 2010 @ 10:01 am
Osteopaths, eh? I’ll look into that. So far, I’ve had a lot of good results from my Chi Kung practice. I’ve stepped it up to twice a day and am moving around nearly back to normal. Thanks for the kind wishes!
Just got to the stages on insight in MCTB, and am reading through them slowly. I kind of want each to sink in before I got to the next. Will probably read that part through a few times…
Yeah, I hear you on that. I’ve been doing mine long enough that I make decent money, but then, its only recently that I’ve been able to start a savings going…. Good luck to you, I’m sure you can work out a middle way of some sort!
Comment by Ian — April 23, 2010 @ 11:25 am