April 15, 2010
- Lee van Laer on The Gurdjieff Work -
This work is designed to help a man in such a way that if he works, and is diligent, the world can touch his soul. We are able to act as an intermediary between the material and the most intimate fragments of what can be called sacred consciousness; this is our purpose, and the allegory of the fall of man–of Adam and Eve’s expulsion from the Garden of Eden– is in large part a parable about the loss of exactly this ability.
(from his blog post here)
Yes I agree, the loss of consciousness has continued since that time, even though we have become technically superior. We really do not understand the Macrocosm vs. the Microcosm, making it impossible to reach higher levels of existence (being). For the most part we have made God’s of ourselves, in the form of imagination and its hypnotizing effects. Tools have evolved but sadly, Human nature has not.
Thank you for sharing
Eso
Comment by Esoman — April 15, 2010 @ 9:45 am
Thanks Eso. I’m not sure I’m entirely sold on the idea of a fall, however. Personally, I think an expansion into new psychic territory, followed by our inability to main our previous level of functioning when taking this new territory into account, is what is commonly thought of as the fall.
Skillful attention and learned use of the mind/body system can help get us back on track, and better than we were before. It just takes time. Sucks to be in the middle of a massive consciousness experiment, but someone’s got to do it. And I don’t see anything else that has consciousness like we do.
We’re just struggling with suddenly (as a species) no longer feeling complete. But that’s because we’re part-way to a new level, not because we’ve fallen from our old level. Equilibrium is followed by chaos, to get to a higher equilibrium, a treck outwards into chaos is necessary. We’re the vanguard. :)
Comment by Ian — April 15, 2010 @ 12:17 pm
Sorry if I come across a little preachy, I am glad to hear from you. I always enjoy hearing from new people here. Its just your comment got me thinking and the ideas kind of exploded out in my reply.
I completely agree with you on this, and would love to hear your thoughts on my reply, if you were so inclined.
Comment by Ian — April 15, 2010 @ 12:24 pm
Hello Ian, no offence taken, I was responding to Lee’s post on the “Fourth way work”, as I have been following this and other esoteric systems, since the early 1980′s. The Fourth Way is my flagship of spiritual thought, although I lean more toward the Ouspensky and Nicoll method, rather than the Gurdjieff
way. I am familiar with non duality thinking, though I prefer looking at it from levels of creation rather than a singularity. As for this excerpt from your comment;
“Skilful attention and learned use of the mind/body system can help get us back on track, and better than we were before. It just takes time. Sucks to be in the middle of a massive consciousness experiment, but someone’s got to do it. And I don’t see anything else that has consciousness like we do.”
I agree partially, there are many ways including the ways of the Yogi, the Monk, the Fakir. The ways are to increase perfection in their realms of discipline. So indeed, conscious work with the mind and body lead to greater awareness.
As for; “I don’t see anything else that has consciousness like we do.” I am of the opinion that their exists beings of higher levels of consciousness, than that of our own(mechanical humanity). They are the ones that can help us, but we must make the initial effort to get in contact. This requires a lot of work and sometimes many lifetimes.
“The path is definitely wide, but the gate is narrow and discerning.”
Thank you for inviting me back to comment.
Eso
Comment by Esoman — April 15, 2010 @ 1:23 pm
Thanks Eso, I appreciate your coming back.
I too am a fan of the 4th Way, though I currently consider Zen Buddhism to be may “flagship”, so to speak. Gurdjieff is a close second. I have yet to read any Ouspensky, as I find him a bit too intellectually intimidating for me to wrap my head around. Though “In Search of the Miraculous” is on my (admittedly over-large) reading list.
By saying body-mind system, I did not mean to imply only body or mind (shoddy word choice on my part!) but to also include the emotions/feelings in this. Definitely, all three centers are of equal importance, and mindful and attentive work is needed with all three (simultaneously, if possible!)
I am intrigued by your comment on higher beings. Is this something that you find in the Ouspensky/Nicoll version of the 4th Way, explicitly? I know Gurdjieff hinted at such beings (Beelzebub’s Tales is the obvious example), but I am not aware of any explicit descriptions. Just curious what your sources are on this, and if they come from any 4th Way of thinking.
I do not disagree with the idea of higher powers, but I have not personally ever experienced them as specific entities. As you point out, I am more on the Path of the non-dual, divine-singularity kind of thinking. Though I certainly acknowledge that both ways have value.
Comment by Ian — April 15, 2010 @ 3:09 pm
Hello Ian, What you are asking reference Higher beings, is best described in the explanation of the “Ray of Creation”. You can find it explained in many of the fourth way books including “Vol 1 page 115 of the psychological commentaries on the teachings of Gurdjieff and Ouspensky by Maurice Nicoll“ It is also referred to via the concept of the divisions of mankind, from mechanical to conscious humanity and beyond. This can also be found in the commentaries.
As an intellectual of immense proportions, Ouspensky can be hard at times to fathom. One of my earliest teachers in the “4th way” introduced me to Maurice Nicoll and his works. He is, in my opinion, a key to better understanding, both Gurdjieff and Ouspensky.
I have written a post on the “Ray” that briefly gives the ideas in basic form and can be reached at;
Moon Effect if you are interested. It is very brief given this immense idea, and is designed to speak to all levels.
“In search of the Miraculous”, Is where I began my explorations of this system. I highly recommend it for someone that is interested.
Comment by Esoman — April 16, 2010 @ 6:07 am
I used to kind of believe in a fall. I think some people have ended up in a place where its been more of a fall for them and that some people go to a higher level.
I think it has to do with slavery basically. Being exploited to serve anothers higher purpose. Probably slaves can get to a higher level, depending on their perspective. But I think that’s what Gurdjieff meant about being “food.”
I also think there are higher beings guiding us.
Comment by Ted — April 16, 2010 @ 7:13 am
Thanks Eso, I’ll check out “In Search Of”, and from there maybe look into some Nicoll. I’ll go check out your post on the Ray of Creation now as well.
Ted, the Fall I’m talking about is more mankind’s fall from some sort of union with the divine. The master/slave relationship is, perhaps, a microcosmic mimicking of a macro-cosmic state, but if anything, we end up with fallen people trying to regain their divinity by setting themselves up as Lords of the Fallen. But they’re still “fallen” right? What is it that Satan says in Paradise Lost, “Better to rule in hell than serve in heaven”?
But my point is that “hell” or the “fallen” state is just something we’re going through. After all, if God is absolute, how can there ever be anywhere that’s not “heaven”? As Buddhism says, we all have Buddha nature, we just don’t realize it and so we suffer. Better to become lord of our self, realize and return to our true nature, finish the task at hand, however many lifetimes it takes, then to settle for less-than-wholeness halfway to completion.
Comment by Ian — April 16, 2010 @ 11:08 am