This is why I went off on the Tibetan Buddhists. They were Fascists, prior to exile. They expoloited and opressed the peasants, kept them ignorant and illiterate and hoarded the advanced knowledge for themselves.

The program seemed to be enslave the masses, and keep them in the dark, in order to live a life of liesure and luxury and the freedom to pursue “enligtenment”

So I go to this talk about how you can make the World a better place through the practice of Buddhism. It was a bit banal. Why would they have the answers to that question?

Everything the Dalai Lama has learned about freedom, Democracy and Human rights, he learned since his exile, from sources already avialable to all of us in the west.

So I’d like to figure out just what exactly are the kernals of truth to be had from this stuff.

I was taught that Chi Kung is the ’standing still’ activity whereas the T’ai Chi is the slow-motion in a prescribed Form (hold the ball, single whip, catch sparrow by the tail etc.) We used Chi Gung as a warmup; apparently it means ‘energy gathering’ or something like that. Hands above head, gather energy; clasp hands over Dan Tien, squirrel it away for later. Then Form.

I mean, the way you do the Form to start with is all consciousness. But after a bit it starts to flow by itself. So the intention and the action start to get muddled up. I’m not sure where it goes from here but it’s an odd feeling.

I don’t know if you did it on purpose, but I think that Tai Chi (or more properly, Chi Kung) might be the answer to the question I asked Ann above (regarding a workout for the emotional center). My chi kung teachers’ key instructions have always been no thoughts and to smile from the heart. I always finish practice feeling lighter and happier, so its a good bet that the Chi practice is a combination emotion/body exercise.

However, I’m not sure how this ties in with the article (it seems your posting this more in response to the article, rather than my reply to Ann). I’d like to hear what exactly you meant by that.

Though I can also take a stab at making connections myself. :)

Perhaps chi is a bridge between the conscious mind and the unconscious processes in the body (I’ve actually heard yoga teachers say that in regards to prana, but its never made sense before now…)

That is, the subtle breath body can be viewed by the mind as a sort of rippling surface, underneath which lies the causal body, the actual stuff-thats-going-on, which we need to entrain our conscious awareness to (through meditation and the reduction of “static”, as well as speeding up the “frame rate” of our awareness).

This makes sense that as well, because noticing the flow of Chi in the body can unblock our energy pathways and release tension. Releasing that kind of tension can clear psychological and spiritual blockages as well.

Dunno. What do you think?

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Like, there’s this exercize where you assume a relaxed posture, knees slightly bent, feet shoulder width apart, and the instructor takes your shoulder and leans on you and pushes you over sideways. And then you do it with your eyes shut, and the whole class laughs because then the instructor /can’t/ push you over; your unconscious balance takes over and transfers the weight from foot to foot and keeps you upright. And then you laugh and you get pushed over again. The skill is to be able to do it with your eyes open. Apparently the Master of the school used to walk round the class practicing the Form, just pushing people over when he saw they weren’t doing it right :)

Of course, tension itself is not the enemy. Tension is simply our mind and body’s way of drawing our attention to problems, places where we’re grasping or pushing away. We wouldn’t call pain from a getting to close to an open flame an enemy either, its only when we don’t pay attention to it that we can get badly burned.

However, I do find something rather depressing about the article as well. This sums it up pretty well:

This is the dilemma we are presented with. This irrevocable conviction that the mind as I know it is a “real” mind. The knitting together of the three centers which could produce something of a higher order is no more than a theory, and my methods of working towards it remain largely untested hypotheses. The reason for this is that all of the approach to these questions is owned by the very entity that stands between me and the organic sense of being — this ephemeral, artificial “mind” which is my principal tool for interaction with life.

And that’s after 30 years of doing the Gurdjieff work…

If that’s the way he’s defining his mind, there doesn’t seem to be anything to be done. If the mind as it currently is is not capable of improving itself, of making itself more prone to the accidents of enlightenment and spiritual growth, then there’s no reason for him to beat himself up about it. However, the way I look at it is, if “mind” is not real, there still must be something that is real. We’re better off not worrying so much about the false “mind”. Instead, searching out what is real within us, and using that as a foundation for further growth.

How we frame the question is really a key issue, and framing it as impossible glues our feet to the ground before we ever get a chance to start walking.

On the other hand, I do enjoy being in the head brain, and of course, there’s nothing inherently wrong with that, so long as its kept in balance. I’ve been having a lot of trouble writing lately, and also with my zen meditation. And I’m finally coming to realize that it might be exactly what you and the zen people have pointed out, I had been too much out of the body. Having brought my practice back into my body, I’m hoping I’ll now able to get back into the head brain properly, without it spinning out of control and away from the body. I just have to make sure I keep both areas of practice moving at similar speeds.

At least, that’s how I’m experiencing it. Does that make any sense at all? :)

Also, since I imagine you’re a but more familiar with Gurdjieffian exercises, do you know if there’s anything to be done for the third center (heart/emotional)? I am worried I may be neglecting that one, and would like to remedy the situation before it becomes a problem. The last thing I want to do though is find another class to take!

Though maybe a Sufi group would be helpful… I think they’re supposed to be a more heart oriented group.

And now let’s take a deep breath and come out of the head brain and into the body.

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I am just finding that obedience to Spiritual authority figues is a false hope to remedying the situation.

Which is something I have not made a judgment on yet, myself. I agree with you when it comes to the terms you’re using, I just don’t think they apply to all teachers. Where they do, you’re right, where they don’t, I disagree.

You seem nervous about owning your own power of discernment.

I am, no secret there. :)

We may even be ahead of Buddha, as he lived thousands of years ago and was ignorant of scientific knowledge we view as commonplace.

You seem nervous about owning your own power of discernment. I am not criticizing you, thats part of life. I am just finding that obedience to Spiritual authority figues is a false hope to remedying the situation.

But your last comment, as much as I respect your intent, points out something I have a problem with (and something I wrestle with myself). If no one knows anything for sure, how can we be in anyway “ahead”? If there’s an ability to be “ahead” then there must be people who are also “ahead” of us from whom we can learn. Right?

And on the other hand, how do we know we’re not going in the wrong direction? It’s certainly not an impossibility.

Again, I am not saying anything about Shambala, I respect your decision not to study under them. I don’t think there’s any need to go any further into that here.

Also I am not bashing. I just think rape is bad. None of my accusations were baselss.

I mean come on dude, the Last head honcho right behind the Current leader of Shambala raped his students and knowingly gave them AIDS. I mean that is a serious scandal not far back at all.

All I was doing was making an attempt to learn under these people. The Universe gave me an answer.

Anyway I won’t I tink we both want the same thing.

I guess I just brought it up because we were talking about meditation

But we weren’t talking about meditation at the time. We were talking about theories and definitions of the witness:

Weird to think of “the witness” as both something the self can inhabit, and something that can watch the other parts of the self doing stupid shit. :)

Really gets rid of the idea that self is any certain thing, if it can change like that…

Any synchronicity. And beer. :)

But then somehow it turned into bashing Tibetan Buddhism. :(

Well that would be really convenient Ian. These Coke snorting AIDS spreading profligates, (With a Lineage recognized by other Buddhist Muckety mucks as perfectly legit) know best and want to protect everyone and thats why they rule under a veil of secrecy.

Please explain where I said this, or what you’re even responding to by saying this.

its not fake corruption its real.

I never said it was fake, in fact, I specifically said I was NOT defending them.

This is part and parcel with this path, it really seems to me.

This I agree with 100%. Have you read Saint’s and Psychopaths by Bill Hamilton? Check it out here if not.

At the same time, not 100% of organization are corrupt. I simply will not allow it to be said on my blog that anything is 100% one way. I don’t believe the world works this way. In fact, when we believe something is 100% a certain way, its probably in our best interest to seek out the opposite of what we believe because we’re probably missing something.

What if no one knows any more than you already do right now?

Then why bother seeking? That’s a false consolation and an excuse for laziness.

what if lots of people figure out everything pretty much on their own because there isn’t as much to figure out as we think?

maybe that’s the hook? We think these high up spiritual teachers know all this shit we don’t and than it turns out they just want lots of pussy, money and power.

They really don’t know Jack. What if no one knows any more than you already do tight now?

I guess I just brought it up because we were talking about meditation it seems like you get a lot out of it and I went to this thing and wanted to get more serious about meditation and just googled them and uncovered all this corruption. its not fake corruption its real.

I am wary of this stuff but also a sincere spiritual seeker. I went with my Aunt who is the same way. She was once a moonie. Same abuiive dynamic.

Its really wide spread this abusiive dynamic. Even Ken wilbur and Alex grey came under the spell of Da Free John, a totally corrupt guru.

This is part and parcel with this path, it really seems to me.

That’s what Buddhism seems to be based on to me.

As I said above, that’s fine. I don’t agree, but that’s fine. Why can’t I disagree with you on this?

People prefer it to figuring things out on their own, so this perpetuates the abuse.

And so what happens when someone does figure it out “on their own”? A) Do you know anyone who’s done this? and B) What do they do after this?

And you haven’t answered my question…:

But I keep feeling like we’re missing the point somewhere. Where did all the even come from? I never said anything about Tibet, Shambala, Tantricism or any of this, it all came from you. Why did you bring all this up in the first place?

I’d also like to point out that you’re using criticism against the Dalai Lama as evidence against Shambala, even though these are two entirely different lineages and organizations.

Oh, come on. How many fricken Lamas are there? We are talking about a Tiny elite among a very small nation, most of which were illiterate sefs 50 years ago.

You really think good can come from organizations ruled top down by people with secret occult initiation and history of sexual impropriety? I mean come on? “crazy wisdom?”

This is like the SS or the Mafia or Gustapo.

The fact is people like doing what authority figures tell them to do, jumping through hooops and eventually becoming an insider. That’s what Buddhism seems to be based on to me. People prefer it to figuring things out on their own, so this perpetuates the abuse.

We are all co-creators of these structures and people could wthdraw assent to them at any time in which case they would collapse. But they are perpetuated because people are willing to compromise.

For a good explanation of Vajrayana practice, check these:

BG 111: Japanese Shingon: The True Word School
BG 112: Vajrayana in Plain English